Thing Frankfurt Moblog

Received 19. 03. 2005 -- 19:44 from from vinzenz murr <= = =>

Fwd: Re: [debug-webviews] Re: [nettime-fr-raw] quelle route d'avenir?

Dear Patrick,


We are an unmoderate francophone not exclusive list of discussion to the
subscribers. Or we would not be interesting as "other" list of
discussion. I
does not mean of such exceptionnal ideas that they would not appear in
the
other list, but certainly another way to express thanks a free
dispositive -till it would nos present a major unconvenient solution
for the
most of us.
Nous sommes une liste de discussion francophone non exclusive et non
modérée pour les inscrits. Ou bien nous ne serions pas intéressants
comme
"autre" liste de discussion. Je ne veux pas dire que nous exprimerions
des
idées si exceptionnelles qu'elles ne paraîtraient pas ailleurs, mais
qu'il
s'agit certainement d'une autre façon de s'exprimer grâce à un libre
dispositif -du moins, jusqu'à ce que cela ne présente pas d'inconvénient
majeur pour la plupart d'entre nous.

The reason for which I translated into French this text is not because I
would agree with its contents as a mode. I have translated it to French
subscribers who do not understand English or not enough to know of this
text - there are few but THEY are - hope they could tell anything of
such a
text and know about http://curmbox.org/sound_art/
La raison pour laquelle j'ai traduit ce texte en français n'est pas
parce que j'y aurais adhéré en matière de forme et de contenu, mais tout
simplement parce que certains d'entre nous - il y en a peu mais il y en
a -
n'entendent pas l'anglais ou pas suffisamment pour avoir compris ce
texte
anglophone écrit par des co-instrits germanophones (je veux dire, non
seulement la difference de la langue entre le français et l'anglais,
mais
encore la différence du ton critique dans une version critique héritée
d'une
tradition radicale allemande).

Yes I agree with any criticisms you make specially on academics against
other academics, but aren't there a part of jokes even it would not have
commmited the most of us in a roar of laughter? Isn't it there any
smile ?
Some pamphlets on the political ideas or formalist acts in advanced Net
meta-art and some visual caricatures (untenderness drawings and all the
contrary videos as trivial naturalist proofs) how we find rather in the
print but never on-line Media by fear of social flames ? This way they
could
be in a critical simulation as radical posture of absurd?
Oui je suis d'accord avec certaines de vos critiques sur l'autre
académisme contre l'académisme convenu, mais n'y a t'il pas dans ces
messages une grande part de blagues, même si cela ne nous a pas tous
confondus en éclat de rire ? N'y a t'il pas là au moins un sourire ?
Quelque
pamphlet sur les idées politiques et artistiques du Net méta-art avancé
et
quelques caricatures visuelles (dessins sans tendresse et videos
natuiralistes insignifiantes comme preuves à l'appui), d'une façon
radicale
que nous connaissons dans une tradition de la Presse mais pas enligne à
cause de la montée en flamme de la communication la plus large en temps
réel
? Ainsi, ils pourraient être dans la posture absurde d'une simulation
critique radicale ?

They do not prevent you from communicating here in matter of your own
ideas
nor in matter of other links or attachments which would be innovative
and
creative to the community, I mean specially art or poetry or
philosophical
or social testimonies of the actual. They do not harass particular posts
which we would have sent ourselves ; they have not affected personal
subscribers nor personnal representative online, directly in our
editorial
line - or rather if you link but this way stays respectuous of us and
under
their own responsability.
Ils ne vous empêchent pas d'exprimer ici vos propres idées ni de
manifester vos propres liens ou documents attachés qui seraient
novateurs et
créatifs pour la communauté, notamment des témoignages artistiques,
poétiques ou philosophiques - ou sicaux - comme témoignages de
l'actuel. Ils
ne visent à exténuer des posts particuliers que d'autres inscrits
auraient
fait ici, ni même des personnes représentatives d'Internet vialaligne
éditoriale de notre liste - ou éventuellement par liens mais cela
demeure
respectueux de nos propres pensées et engagemetns différents et
n'engage que
leur propre responsabilité.

Their posts of this genre you answer about are not so frequent, at
least; of
course we do not want repetitive spams as repetitive content ot by
error.
Anyway at the moment they could be hostil to other or one subscribers,
so it
would be necessary always time to ask the collective question to find an
immediate solution. From your point of view, have we reach this moment
really? So I do not feel of it, personally.
Leurs posts du genre de celui auquel vous répondez ne sont pas si
fréquents, en fin de compte ; naturellement nous ne voulons pas de spams
répétitifs de contenus répétitif sinon par erreur. De toutes façons si
jamais cela devenait hostile pour les inscrits ou l'un d'entre eux, ils
serait toujours nécessaire de poser la quesiton collective pour trouver
une
solution sans délai. Crioyez-vous que nous ayons vraiment atteint un tel
point ? Personnellement je ne le ressens pas.

Of course and obviously I have translated their text to inform anyone of
their mode, so if any could fell as bad as you they could protest, but
other
could smile front of the comedy.
Evidemment, j'ai traduit leur texte pour que tous sachent et voient
leur
mode, par exemple si quelqu'un d'autre ne parlant pas anglais pouvait le
ressentir mal comme vous, alors il pourrait protester. Mais d'autres
pourriaent sourire devant cette comédie.

But I appreciate your reactive mail, as it allows our transitive
respective
and mutual critical informations.
Mais j'apprécie votre mail réactif, comme de plus il ouvre la
transitivité de notre information critique mutuelle.

Exactly, there is all the same an effort to make to guard the liberties
(the
free mode of a list) of the contents than in particular the tolerance of
several languages in a list. It supposes a collective effort of
subscriberts
towards each one, without being able to understand all, in which stays
supporting to the question of otherness in real, but obviously it calls
for
a bigger patience and tolerance. Same way in matter of cultural
difference
of the modes of social protocoles; we try this difference among the
generalist lists ; it is the experimental interest of this special large
editorial line.
Pour être précis, il y a le même effort à garder des libertés, (le
mode
libre d'une liste) que dans la tolérance de plusieurslangues dans une
liste
suppose un effort collectif des inscrits à l'égard de chacun, sans
obligatoirement tout comprendre ni résoudre et en quoi réside
précisément
d'admettre l'altérité de fait, et demande une plusgrande patience et
toélrance que sur d'autres listes. Telle est l'expérience ici parmi les
listes généralistes.

At least, what do you think of it?
Et finallement qu'en pensez-vous ?

Sorry of my approximative english sentences and words.
Désolée de mes mots et phrases approximatifs en anglais.

Friendly
Amicalement

L.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Ryan" <Patrick.Ryan [at] gmx [dot] net>
To: <debug-webviews [at] yahoogroups [dot] com>
Cc: <nettime-fr-raw [at] anart [dot] no>; <louise.desrenards [at] free [dot] fr>
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: [debug-webviews] Re: [nettime-fr-raw] quelle route
d'avenir?


>> 'meet the other'
>
> what are 'WE(?!?)fighting for?
> a representation platform for academics?
> for artists being everywhere and nowhere?
>
> '...we demand a pacific action'
> blow the worn out horns, commander wee-wee
>
> '...diversity against compact masses',
> diversity is just another predictable attempt,
> to unify, let it die, Mr. President.
>
> to fight against '...pre-formatted frames',
> calling out a new age, a fight,
> a bunch of aims and dusty claims?
>
> why do your little movies need the academic text then?
> better work on your 'pre-formatted frames',
> or you might as well spend the rest of your time,
> with a bunch self announced activist friends.
>
> kindly regards,
> if utopia should be that boring,
> prefer living here.
>
> Pat
>>
>> we, artists, performers, tribes from the normative bebilderung, we
>> have
>> been undergoing police repressions, abusive laws, the pressures of
>> cultural industries and capitalist economy for a long time. to
>> denounce
>> these intolerable pressures, we declare the internet television will
>> be, so that everybody will demonstrate his know-how and creativity in
>> the dark, an international underground! let 10.000 clips joyfully
>> illuminate and fertilize the cultural aridity! the idea of internet
>> television is metaphoric: even if celebrate, create, have amateur
>> cultural practices, emerge among indifference, market, and daily
>> repression are a fight, we demand a pacific action! internet
>> television
>> is a pacific action, but it remains a fight! internet televisionists
>> are working towards another end. this other end is militant: it is a
>> question of producing an utopia. u-topia = lack of proper place. for
>> us
>> in a prospect of action, it means being everywhere at the same time.
>> it
>> also means: being numerous but no masses! Iit further means cultural
>> diversity! meeting the others! refusing identity withdraws of all
>> kinds, as people can have lots of piercings and be really set in their
>> ways, egoist, monomaniac or limited. here is the fight: not a fight
>> for
>> sound, free, punk, classic or else! but for all that in once and to
>> keep the possibility of doing that. for the emergence of diversity!
>> for
>> diversity against compact masses! for the right to create, to meet
>> freely each others, to imagine our future off the pre-formatted frames
>> proposed by the market, the security ideologies and the ready-to-think
>> of some activists. to prove that we are organized, thoughtful,
>> responsible and that we are fully aware of our acts as well during our
>> cultural events as every day. to demonstrate that we represent an
>> important part of the population, that we can be your neighbours, your
>> friends, your family.
>>
>> which way to go?
>>
>>
>> http://subjektivation.de/
>> http://pingelfraaten.de/
>>
>> archiving ready-made fast moving pictures
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> anti-neoistic net authority
>> --> http://wiki-institute.com/
>>
>> the best band box
>> --> http://curmbox.org/
>>
>> spycam files for free
>> --> http://pinguinismus.de/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ya Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>>
>>
>> we, artists, performers, tribes from the normative bebilderung, we
>> have
>> been undergoing police repressions, abusive laws, the pressures of
>> cultural industries and capitalist economy for a long time. to
>> denounce
>> these intolerable pressures, we declare the internet television will
>> be, so that everybody will demonstrate his know-how and creativity in
>> the dark, an international underground! let 10.000 clips joyfully
>> illuminate and fertilize the cultural aridity! the idea of internet
>> television is metaphoric: even if celebrate, create, have amateur
>> cultural practices, emerge among indifference, market, and daily
>> repression are a fight, we demand a pacific action! internet
>> television
>> is a pacific action, but it remains a fight! internet televisionists
>> are working towards another end. this other end is militant: it is a
>> question of producing an utopia. u-topia = lack of proper place. for
>> us
>> in a prospect of action, it means being everywhere at the same time.
>> it
>> also means: being numerous but no masses! Iit further means cultural
>> diversity! meeting the others! refusing identity withdraws of all
>> kinds, as people can have lots of piercings and be really set in their
>> ways, egoist, monomaniac or limited. here is the fight: not a fight
>> for
>> sound, free, punk, classic or else! but for all that in once and to
>> keep the possibility of doing that. for the emergence of diversity!
>> for
>> diversity against compact masses! for the right to create, to meet
>> freely each others, to imagine our future off the pre-formatted frames
>> proposed by the market, the security ideologies and the ready-to-think
>> of some activists. to prove that we are organized, thoughtful,
>> responsible and that we are fully aware of our acts as well during our
>> cultural events as every day. to demonstrate that we represent an
>> important part of the population, that we can be your neighbours, your
>> friends, your family.
>>
>> which way to go?
>>
>>
>> http://subjektivation.de/
>> http://pingelfraaten.de/
>>
>> archiving ready-made fast moving pictures
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> anti-neoistic net authority
>> --> http://wiki-institute.com/
>>
>> the best band box
>> --> http://curmbox.org/
>>
>> spycam files for free
>> --> http://pinguinismus.de/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahnks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> DSL Komplett von GMX +++ Supergünstig und stressfrei einsteigen!
> AKTION "Kein Einrichtungspreis" nutzen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
>
>




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